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45 ACP Bullets
Mike Snyder msnyder@delrio.com
Subject: Re: 200 or 185 gr. bullets ?
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 19:01:16 -0600
Wishbone wrote:
> I notice a lot of talk on this list about 185 gr. bullets. I've always
> used 200 gr. LSWC's for bullseye. Is there a significant accuracy
> difference between the two ?
> Bob
> N.D.
Wish,
I did quite abit of machine rest testing a while back. IMHO machine rest testing is a must for anyone that takes this game seriously. I'd bet that most people on the firing line, who are reloading their own load for the long line, would be shocked to know how poorly their load performs out of their gun. I tested a gun of mine, and it wouldn't shoot 185 gr. LSWC's very accurately at the long line (5" and 6" groups). The 200 gr. LSWC's would group significantly better (3"-4"). This same gun would shoot 185 gr. jacketed bullets even better than 200 gr. LSWC, however (2"-3"). Really the only way to determine this is by experimenting with different loads with different bullets, and see how they do out of YOUR gun at 50 yds. Many on this list have had real good luck with the Star 185 gr. swaged LSWCHP at the long line, and the Nosler 185 gr. JHP shoots extremely well out of most guns. Most people have reported 2" groups and better with these two bullets out of a very good gun. Most people find that any half-way decent cast bullet will shoot 100's all day long at the short line whether 185 or 200 gr.
I hope this helps. You can jus' call me Mr. Favor...Rowdy, let's head 'um up and moooove 'em out...Rawhide:)
Sorry, I just couldn't resist. It was one of my all time favs.
Mike
Bullseye Rules!
John Caulmare johncaulmare@mediaone.net
Subject: Re: bullet weight???
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:05:22 -0400
Jeffket@aol.com wrote:
> I am wondering what bullet weight people in the group are using in there
> 45's. I am currently using a 200 gr. swc with 3.8 grains of bullseye powder.
> Am i on the right track and also is there any benefit to using lighter or
> heavier weight bullets.
I have generally found that 200 grain (or heavier) cast bullets will group better at 50 yards than 185 grain lead. However, I do think that there is less recoil with the lighter bullets and they can shoot well enough for 25 yards.
With jacketed bullets, I have had good groups with the 185 gr Winchester semiwadcutter or the 185 gr Nosler hollowpoint. I don't see any reason to go heavier.
From: David H. Daniels dhd45@mediaone.net
Subject: Re: reloading page updated
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 18:59:58 -0500
George. Following is a cut and paste clip from several emails from Ed Masaki to me regarding the gun that I am extremely expectant of getting in the very near future. Imagine, 50 shots at 25 yards all in the center! Hope it does that for me. You can probably post as Lead Bullet Loads by Ed Masaki. DD
Hi David, I just returned from RR testing your gun at the 50yd line.
Results:
#1 197gr western Nevada bullet 3.8 Clays.
10shots 1 7/8X1 11/16"
Best 9shots 1 3/8X1 11/16"
#2 197gr western nevada bullet 4gr BE
10shots 2 1/4X1 3/8"
Best 9shots 1 9/16X1 3/8"
#3 197gr western nevada bullet 4gr BE
10shots 1 3/8X1 5/16"
#4 197gr western nevada bullet 3.8 Clays
10shots 1 13/16X1 3/4"
Some times you get a slight flier due to slight defect inside the bullet head which we cannot see. (NOTE: Ed gets 197 grain bullets with a flat base that are more accurate than the 200 grain bevel base bullets that are generally sold.) That is why the Nosler Jacketed hollow point bullet shoots the best group (they are more consistent---dd). But they are expensive and eats up the barrel quicker than lead bullets.
You can use 4gr BE with 180gr bullets and it shoots real good. I was shooting your gun, 50 rounds of time fire and every one was in the center, shooting one hand at 25 yards. The difference between 4grs of BE on the 180 against the 197 or 200gr bullet is the recoil. The 180gr has a milder recoil which is good for time and rapid fire. Easy to recover.
Who makes this 180 and where can we get some? Dave
I get mine thru Western Nevada West Coast Bullets. You can also use the 185 as long as it has a long nose. Don't get those short stubby nose. 200 you can get anywhere. The most accurate seems to me Meisters of Arizon which Dillon Co. sells them.
Ed Masaki 8/99
From: Rick10010X@aol.com
Subject: Master Match Bullets
Date:Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:16:26 -1000 (HST)
A couple of weeks ago a lister asked whether anyone had tried Master Match bullets carried by Widener's. Because they are unable to supply my favorite .45 bullet, the Remington 185 grain JSWC, I bought some Master Match 185 grain JHP. First thing I discovered was that they were not 0.452 diameter as advertised. I miked ten of them and they were 0.4505 =/- 0.0001.
I loaded two batches: WCC brass, Win primers, 1.200 OAL, 4.0 grs N310 and 4.3 grs N310.
I shot five-shot strings off my pistol rest aiming with a red dot sight. This same setup gives me 5-shot Nosler groups at 50 yards running from 2.0 inch to 3.0 inch. If I can keep my grip absolutely unchanged throughout the string I can keep them on the low side.
I was underwhelmed by the results.
4.0 grs N310: 25 yds: 3.0 inches 50 yds: 6.75 inches
4.3 grs N310: 25 yds: 2.50 inches 50 yds: 4.50 inches
Why such poor performance? Don't know. The bullet looks relatively well made, but not as good as a Nosler. The big difference is the rather large radius around the base of the MM, and frequent dings on the radius.
If I can't find anymore Remingtons I'll have to look for something else other than Master Match.
Rick
Knoxville
From: Dave Salyer ncfc.4sy@mail.nt.js.cn
Subject: Re: [bullseye-l] Master Match Bullets
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:13:45 +0800
Rick,
One fatal problem preventing accuracy is the undersize diameter. Bullseye charges won't make the bullet swell and seal.
Dave Salyer
From: "Dave Salyer" bullseye@cetlink.net
Subject: Re: [bullseye-l] powder measure & weighing charges
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 22:21:32 -0400
Justin is right about there being no value in weighing complete .45 rounds.
All my comments below refer to .45's.
Sorting cast bullets for pistol is best done for slow fire by weighing the bullet. It doesn't matter whether an electronic or balance scale is used, if accurate. I use a balance scale.
The key point is that only the heaviest of the lot will be accurate at 50 yards. Any bullet from a given lot that weighs more than one grain lighter will have hidden or visible voids! These, being unbalanced, will curve in an ever increasing spiral, especially after they pass the 25 yard line.
I learned this from lots of Ransom rest testing. The lighter bullets sometimes will hold X-ring at 25 and open up to 8 inches or more at 50 yards. X-ring at 25 yards isn't good enough either. If you consider that two thirds of our shooting is at 25 yards, you can realize that a few of those 9's could have been scratch tens if the bullets were perfect.
My informal testing shows that excellent bullets (like Nosler JHP's) will only open up from 25 to 50 yards by a factor of 2.4. For example, 1" at 25 yards will give about 2.4" @ 50 yards. Noslers often beat this example.
Hope this clarifies,
Dave
From: Ed Masaki masaki@hits.net
Subject: Re: [bullseye-l] Titegroup loads & bullet weights
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:20:09 -1000
At 04:43 PM 10/22/99 -0500, Bill Lovett wrote:
>Does anyone have a good starting point to work up a load with Titegroup
>using Meister cast 200gr SWC bullets?
>
>I weighed about 100 of the Meister cast 200gr SWC bullets the other night.
>They all were within +/-.5gr of 200.5gr. This bullet is prelubed. How much
>variation in weight do I need to worry about before I start weighing bullets
>for the longline?
>Bill Nebraska
>Bill Lovett
I have been useing Meister bullets since 1992 when they had a very small bevel base. Back than they used to group 1" to 1.5" at 50yds. Since than they have changed to large bevel and when I told them that the large bevel does not group as good as the small bevel they have gone back to the small bevel.
I don't weigh them for you are weighing the lube also. the lube can be packed tight or they can be loose. You should be more concerned about the damage to the base like a blister or way off sprue cut that is closer to the edge.
ED
From: Ed Masaki masaki@hits.net
Subject:Re: [bullseye-l] Titegroup loads & bullet weights
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 14:05:52 -1000
At 08:29 PM 10/23/99 +0600, Larry S. wrote:
>Ed,
>I'm looking for a 185 gr cast bullet for my .45 wad gun. I see that in
>the Dillon catalog there is no 185 gr Meister bullet. They have a 178
>gr FBSWC which I assume is a "flat base" bullet and a 200 gr SWC.
> It sounds like these two bullets have different bases. The bullets
>that you mentioned that have been giving you good results since 1992 are
>these the 200 gr SWC item???
>Also, if you have any feedback on accuracy of the 178 vs the 200
>Meisters it would be appreciated.
>thanks,
>Larry S.
The 200gr bullets have 2 types of base. make sure that you ask for the smallest bevel. The newest 178 have a small bevel too. They only sent me a few samples so i have to test it out at 50yds. They don't have 185grs. Will let the members know what the results will be.
ED
From: jfrancis1@home.com
Subject: Re: [bullseye-l] D&J Bullets, Warning
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:58:08 -1000 (HST)
Larry,
I had the same problem with D&J about a year or so ago, I had placed an order for over 60,000 heads and got huge run around from them for 6 months. They ended up screwing me out of about $15-$20 that they owed me in a refund. Buyer beware with D&J bullets.
John Francis Pawtucket, Rhode Island
Larry S. wrote:
> Just wanted to let fellow shooters know about the bad experience I am
> having with D&J bullets. I placed an order during the first week in
> September and have still not received the goods. My credit card was
> charged the same week I placed the order. I have called D&J at least
> four times and heard all of kinds of excuses but still no bullets. They
> were even so nice as to give me a bogus UPS tracking number.
>
> Maybe this is only a problem with one order and they have lots of
> satisfied customers but I will no longer be doing any new business with
> them.
>
> Larry S.
From: TWD74@aol.com
Subject: Re: [bullseye-l] D&J Bullets, Warning
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:56:30 -1000 (HST)
I also had a problem with them about a year and a half ago. I was told that the bullets were in stock, but after 3 weeks I called and was told that they must have misplaced the order and it would arrive within two weeks. When pushed for an explanation as to why it would take so long, they said that they were very busy with large orders and I would have to wait until they got to mine, even though I had ordered three weeks before. That was the last time I placed an order with them. As well as they shot, Star SWHP's shoot better.
Beware, anyone who gives the short end of the stick to a Listmember. Word travels fast.
Bob Joyce
Watertown, CT
From: Ed Masaki
Subject: [bullseye-l] bullets
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 14:14:20 -1000
Hi members,
Something I found that could help you. I tested the new Western Nevada Westcoast bullets that I have been talking about. The owner finally did something I asked him to do. He had some old 200gr 45 molds that he was going to putaway. I told him to reshape the mold and remove the bevel base. The first ones he did came out to 197gr. The recent ones he removed more and it came out 196gr. The accuracy is the best I have seen . The 197 was good but the 196 is still better. I tested my friends 45 that I built and had put it on the ransom rest last week shot more consistent groups than the old bevel base.
Remember once I mentioned about flat base being more accurate. Back in 92 when I first saw Meisters Bullet that I had won in a grab bag at Arizona. I knew it would shoot good. Tested and I was right. MY friends gun that I built shot a 1" C to C and with that gun won the state championship. Since than Meister Bullet had changed the bullet to a bevel base. Only by talking to the VP did they go back to the small bevel which they call flat base. I weighed the 196gr and came out with some 197gr. I took 10 bullets and weighed them. With the wax on they varied to 197.3 down to 196.9. With the wax off they weighed more consistently at 196.5. And these are the bullets that shot average of 1.5" at 50yds.
I have to go right now but will continue later. ED
From: Ed Masaki
Subject: [bullseye-l] bullets again
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 15:08:29 -1000
Hi again,
To continue my message on those Western Nevada Bullets. You can call the Owner on the Lead casting side and talk to MACK. (775) 246 3968. He actually casted those for me where I bought 60,000 of them. He will be stocking those for Bullseye shooters.
The bevel base is for the Combat Guys. It is not being sold thru any outlets yet. He said if you buy 1000 bullets he'll send it to you. You pay the postoffice rate or any overland guys. Meisters still makes good bullets. But they have more cavities (blisters) than any Nevada's. Meisters have very even base which is good. Remember once I said to look for any deformatives?? such as cavities, smashed corners or even overlapping lead which is caused by cold molds not ready to cast. Check your base carefully before loading. Any that is in doubt use for practice.
Forget about the shells haveing to be in top condition or once fired for 50yds. If I told you that every guns and ammo that I test is tested on old shells that I fired over 15 times. Some even with slight cracks on the edge. They go in the same place. Too bad I don't live near you where I can give demonstration. The Hawaii shooters get to see me doing all those things that I say. If you see my ammunition at Perry, You'll see that my shells are all mixed shells. NO, I don't use anything special other than carefull picking of my bullets. You can also become a dealer in your area like I am in Hawaii. Talk to MACK.
I hope I got everything. ED
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